[alias]

If remember, the case became so big that there was a nursery rythme (sp?) made up:

Lizzie Borden got an axe

She gave her mother forty whacks

When she saw what she had done

She gave her father forty-one

I think that Lizzie may have been an accomplise but, personally, there's seems to be no way she could have done it on her own unless she somehow caught them serverly off guard. Still that song gives him chills!

[Ancestralbone]

I think she was quite capable of killing them on her own whether on guard or not. You would be surprised at what lurks behind a innocent looking face. After all it is not the outside appearance that kills but the human mind that determines whether or not a person will kill.

[AngelEyes]

I think that she was perfectly capable of killing her parents on her own. She seemed like she was a very sick and jealous girl.

[MorningGlory]

Amira her father wasn't home when her stepmother was killed. He came home and laid down on the couch (an afternoon nap probably) and while he was laying there, totally unaware of the crime that had happened against his wife, he too was killed.

[bardo]

back in those days ppl. didn't think women could do such a thing.

[asylum_souljah]

Everything you wanted or needed to know about Lizzie Borden: The LB virtual museum site:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/

[lady_venum]

I think she was totally capable of doing it. I get the feeling she did.
She had a motive didn't she??

[mangel8202]

i say dear old lizzie is creepy looking she looks like a very strange person i bet she did do it.

[Lady Hawk]

Lizzie was known to have 'turns' - and in the book I am reading about famous acquittals it says she had a form of epilepsy called Jacksonian Epilepsy (A brief alteration in movement, sensation or nerve function caused by abnormal electrical activity in a localized area of the brain.
Source: World Famous Acquittals by Charles Franklin

I suffered from Jacksonian Epilepsy as a child. Not until I was an adult, in my late 20's did a doctor properly diagnose me. JE can, but does not always cause siezures and, usually the patient outgrows the disease by adulthood. In Lizzie's case she continued to "use her condition" to get her way as an adult; re the bedrooms being swaped with Emma, the European vacation, etc.

My spells were odd for most people, especially my teachers, because when I had an attack I would just stop what I was doing and stare off into space for minutes at a time, then just continue what I was doing before the attack. Rarely would I be aware I had lapsed into a "freeze" as my grandma called it.

Although Lizzie knew who the killer was, she and Emma were terrified of him and lived in mortal fear the remaining years of their lives, even after the killer was dead.

[Lady Hawk]

Lizzie did know who the killer was, so did Emma and their uncle.

In fact the only person in that house who did not know the killer was Bridget, she is the saddest character of the entire affair. After the trial Bridget would leave the Bordan employee and move to Colorado where she worked as a cook on a cattle ranch. She died in extreme poverty in (I believe 1918) and was buried in a paupers grave.

Let us dissect the murders:

1) Mrs. Abby Bordan was a hymopheliac (one whose blood cannot clot), the first blow to her skull would have been enough to kill her outright. The additional blows were pure rage;
2) Mr. Andrew Bordan was a tight fisted rude and obnoxious man who loved no one;
3) Mr. Bordan arrived home at about 12:00pm, his usual time in order to have lunch. The front door was locked and Bridgett had a time getting the door open. It was at this time she heard a laugh coming from the up[stairs, she thought it was Lizzie;
4) By 12 noon Abby lay dead upstairs and because Bridgett theough she was out, she did not look into the guest room, had she she would have found Abby dead;
5) Andrew took off his boots and overcoat, folded the coat and ulaid it on the arm of the couch (see photo);
6) shortly after Andrew fell asleep the killer went downstairs from where he had hidden in Emma's room, and confronted Andrew by shouting out "Father" or more than likely "You old b*a*s*t*a*r*d.";
7) Andrew wakes up and finds the killer standing over him;
8) Andrew puts on one of his boots and starts to put on the other when the killer strikes (look at the crime photo, AB has one shoe on his right foot and the left foot is part way into the other shoe). He was sitting up at the time he was struck.

The killer struck each victim with nothing but pure rage coursing through his veins. He had been denied his inheritance, a portion of Andrew Bordan's estate, which by law should have been his as the eldest child of Andrew Bordan!!

Michael William Bordan was the only child of Andrew Bordan's first wife. AB being the *A*H that he was had his wife commited to an insane asylum after their son turned 8, sent the son off to another family and had the marriage invalidated, based on his wifes being institutionalized, and his son declared a b*a*s*t*a*r*d. It takes one to know one

William Bordan became a pig farmer in upstate Massachusetts and never married (wonder why?). The brother of Andrews second wife, the mother of Emma and Lizzie, found out about Michael and attempted to get Michael even a portion of the money due him, it almost worked.

Lizzie had unlocked the cellar window to allow William into the house by her uncle's instructions. Emma knew about the confrintation arranged by their uncle and stayed away for her own safety. Had she stayed she too may have been killed.

After the killings William left through the backdoor and over the the back fence.

The blood splatter? Isn't any to speak of is there? William knew how to slaughter hogs with no blood splatter. Only minute specks of blood are on the walls above Abby's head and a mere dozen are on the wall above Andrew's body and the police did not fine them until the third day because the wallpaper had small red flowers on it.

Any questions students?

[asylum_souljah]

hymopheliac?

Do you mean haemophiliac?

Women cannot be haemophiliacs in the most acceptable sense due to menstruation.

I read a fantastic take on the Borden Murders in a book Im reading at the moment - an old book, pub in 59 - but it has the most awesome information....more than I have seen elsewhere.

I totally think Lizzie did it and quite consciously.

[Lady Hawk]

Women cannot be hemophiliacs in the most acceptable sense due to menstruation.

Sorry A. Souljah, but menstration has nothing to do with Hemophliyia. It is an old wives tale that says a woman cannot have the blood disorder because of the cycle.

Abby Bordan was a Hemophliyiac as her medical record show notes.

My maternal G-Grandmother Charlotte was also a Hemophliyiac, she was born in 1845 and lived to be 90, dying in 1935, she gave birth to five daughters, two died from infantal diseases, the other three, including my maternal grandmother, all grew into adults and had children of their own.

Those who continue to say Lizzie did it need to look real close at both crime scenes.

There is no blood splatter anywhere on the walls, or furniture; the only speck of blood on the bed by Abby, were a few flecks on the bedspread that were not noticed until the 1970's!

There was no extensive blood splatter anywhere on the furniture or floor or carpet, not on the door, nor walls nor Andrew's pants, nor shoes. The only blood on the coat was from Andrew's fatal wounds.

IF Lizzie had killed them, the blood and gore would have been everywhere, and she would have reeked from the gore because she would not have been able to wash all of it away. The dress she burned would have been soaked with blood and also reeked from the gore and blood, especially after being stored for even one day in that heatwave.

No massive blood splatter. No massive splatter of brain matter. No blood and gore drenched dress.

Only an expert "butcher" would have, could have killed so expertly without so minute particles of blood evidence visable. Wlliam Bordan was a hog butcher. He killed them . Case closed.

[Caesar]

I think the evidence at the trial showed that the chop patters are consistant with two hands. I think this shows that either a woman or a young person did this, because a man would use only one hand.

[asylum_souljah]

Irregardless of the clotting disorder Lizzie was still more than physically able to kill both parents.

The lack of blood supports this if anything - it shows someone was able to get deep into the home and up close to the victims - giving them less time to react and fit back - hence little struggle or blood splatter.

A stranger probably couldnt have done that. (Its said the father was asleep - but theres no indication the stepmother was anything but wide awake upstairs).

[Lady Hawk]

I think the evidence at the trial showed that the chop patters are consistant with two hands. I think this shows that either a woman or a young person did this, because a man would use only one hand.

I have never seen anyone, man or woman, use only one hand, either in person or on a video, to correctly use a hatchet or an axe, it cannot be done. In fact no one can use an axe or hatchett safely, or accurately, with only one arm/hand UNLESS they only have hand/arm.

My grandfather taught me how to cut wood for campfires, he always instructed me to use both hands, as well as my arms. You must place both hands at the base of the hatchett or axe, slide one hand upward to just below the blade, raising the hatchett upward. Slide the raised hand down the shaft swinging the hatchet down into the wood; or whatever object you are cutting.

Abby may have cut kindling which recquires a very small amount of skill, but, again, even if she were in a rage, she would not have the expertise, nor appitude, to butcher Abby and Andrew without a "bloody mess."

Then there is the matter of the legal fees. Defense attorneys were not cheap for her, nor were the judge and the prosecution. Personal records, some of Emma's comments and letters to friends after the trial, the fact that about 20% to 25% of the entire Bordan estate was used for legal fees and needs, tell anyone researching the after effects, would know the Bordan sisters paid for the acquita .

Why pay that much? Why wasn't the paper trail mentioning William Bordan released, when even the DA knew he exsisted after meeting with the uncle? Why did Emma and Lizzie have every window from the cellar to the third floor of their Fall River mansion nailed shut after they moved there? Why did Lizzie, on multiple occasions, mention that her "fathers enemies", which later became "fathers' enemy" (singular), were/was still about and very able to harm her and Emma?

Not until William Bordan's mysterious death in 1904 did Lizzie begin to relax. Her half brother had never been a serious problem to either she or Emma until the year prior to the murders. Lizzie said she was afraid they would all be killed just days prior to the murders. Emma kust happened to be away "overnight", something she had never done before according to everyone who knew the family.

[asylum_souljah]

Please dont take this personally but it made me giggle:

I have never seen anyone, man or woman, use only one hand, either in person or on a video, to correctly use a hatchet or an axe, it cannot be done.

To kill someone with a hatchett at all means youre not using it correctly - and doesnt matter how many hands you use.

All the men who were proven to be around the day of the murder, including the family fried who was lodging with them at the time - were conclusively exhonerated. There was simply no evidence of an unknown intruder - bar Lizzie mentioning it sometime earlier. Probably when she started planning to kill her parents and wanted to start a potential alibi.

And why would Lizzie and her sister pay so much for defence fees? Because NAME was more important than anything back then. Being seen to not be guilty rather than actually not being guilty would have been enough momentum.

[Lady Hawk]

There was evidence, sequestered, that a stranger had been seen on at least two occasions the day before the murders, and again on the day of the killings, by three seperate people, two of whom did not appear as witnesses for Lizzie, nor were they ever questioned by the police, DA or defense, even though one, a neighbor, offered his testimony.

Witnesses at the trial, included the next door neighbors maid and the neighbor herself, the family doctors wife, their neighbors maid.

One witness would recall that day almost six decades later, remember the stranger and describe "him" in detail. This woman lived upstreet from the Bordans about two blocks and did not know any of the family. She recalled the man by the "stench of rotten flesh" which she stated, rose up from him as he passed her by. Her first encounter was when she had gone into town for some sewing items, she saw the man at the Bordan's door, as had all of the others. This was before the killings took place. Her second encounter would be so horrible, she fainted dead away and did not recover until after the man had gone. The stench she smelled was so strong and foul it remained in her memory for her entire life.

All of the physical descriptions, including the long coat the stranger wore, matched almost exactly; allowing for a height variance of 1-2 inches. This person stood out as a snowball would have during that hot summer. Even if they did not socailize, or even live next door to the Bordan's, the family was known and a stranger would be noted,even if there had not been a killing.

[Caesar]

I have never seen anyone, man or woman, use only one hand, either in person or on a video, to correctly use a hatchet or an axe, it cannot be done. In fact no one can use an axe or hatchett safely, or accurately, with only one arm/hand UNLESS they only have hand/arm.

My grandfather taught me how to cut wood for campfires, he always instructed me to use both hands, as well as my arms. You must place both hands at the base of the hatchett or axe, slide one hand upward to just below the blade, raising the hatchett upward. Slide the raised hand down the shaft swinging the hatchet down into the wood; or whatever object you are cutting.

Abby may have cut kindling which recquires a very small amount of skill, but, again, even if she were in a rage, she would not have the expertise, nor appitude, to butcher Abby and Andrew without a "bloody mess."

Hi there

An axe and a hatchet are two things. a hatchet is about half the size of an axe. hatchets in those times were used for killing animals and cutting small pieces of wood, while an axe is used mostly for cutting large loggs. I can uses a hatchet with one hand, sinces thats what they are made for at those times, kinda like a tomahawk. they even have throwing compatitions. the point I'm trying to point out is that the evidence shows that the murders were caused by a hatchet, but that it was used like an axe, this seems to be consintant that the muderer wasn't that strong and that it was used like an axe causing this chopping pattern. the lead prosecutor, Hosea Knowlton in the case showed this when they had the skulls defleshed and how the strength it took to cause those wounds.

As for the "bloody mess", she lived there, so I think she could have changed or covered herself with something. I also think she was spotted burning clothes just a day after the muders. I'm not saying she did burn them but I'm sure she had ample time.